Bobby C. has been sober for 36 years and during that time, he has always been open-minded to new ideas and this has enriched his recovery. He has utilized a number of different peer support groups such as AA, SMART, and Dharma Recovery. He really takes a holistic approach to his recovery. Spirituality is difficult to define and probably depends on the experience and frame of reference for each person. I tend to think of it as language, it’s a way to describe an experience that touches one deeply. It’s like poetry or music. Secularism ensures inclusion, it creates a safe space where nobody is to feel compelled to adopt anyone else’s belief system. People respect each other’s unique experiences and journeys. Spirituality and secularism probably will always have some tension among people in recovery, but it’s not necessary. Avoiding labels and focusing on a practice or action can help. It was great to speak with Bobby. The podcast version of this live stream will be posted soon and available wherever you like to get your podcasts.